Slug Club: Discussion [TERM XIII-VI]

[djmayhem-aubrey.livejournal.com]

Activity: Slug Club Discussion: Criteria for Slug Club Good or Bad?
Points: Long debate: Participation 10pts, Additional comment: 2pts
Deadline: Saturday, April 11 @ 11:59 PM EST.

Details: We all know how Slughorn chooses the members of his club. Now we face an interesting dilemma: some people think this is terribly selective. Some people think this is a good thing. This is not a debate. This is a discussion on what everyone thinks about Slughorn's criteria, and if there is anything you would personally do differently while keeping the ultimate goals of giving the Slug Clubbers' decent job prospects intact.




CLUB LEADER NOTE: Since I feel it needs to be said in light of some of the bollocks going on in other posts, if you cannot discuss something without getting your feelings hurt, this is probably NOT the activity for you. That said, do not personally attack anyone else for their opinions. We all have them, we are all entitled to them. I'll be watching the post and making sure things don't get out of hand.

Interested in social networking? Join the Slug Club today!

Comments

[rhye.livejournal.com]

I approve of the way Ginny was included in the club: even though her family is poor and not wizarding elite, her skills were so great that Slughorn saw great promise in her future and figured that people would benefit from knowing her. The fact that this is a criteria over the selection of someone like Draco, who is less talented but has better connections, is refreshing. It sounds bad, but if people are chosen on their own merits, it's almost like an honors class or club, or a honor society.

Jess//Gryffindor

[the-gubette.livejournal.com]

The fact that this is a criteria over the selection of someone like Draco, who is less talented but has better connections, is refreshing.

I'm not sure that this means that Draco is less talented than Ginny. There are several instances where Draco is described as intelligent and academically successful. However, his father was in prison, thus eliminating a lot of his connections, which would have made him look less desirable as a club member in Slughorn's eyes. If Slughorn continued his Club through Harry's seventh year under Snape as Headmaster and Lucius out of Azkaban, I feel sure that Draco would have been included in the club, because his power, and by extension Slughorn's power, would have increased.

I'd also like to point out that Ginny was not originally invited to the club; she was only included after Slughorn saw her curse. I could also go on at length about how this is yet another pathetic attempt by JKR to make Ginny Weasley a Lily Evans clone, but I digress.

However, Slughorn's inclusion of Hermione in the club does make your point. She was a Muggle-born with no connections in the wizarding world (besides Harry), but her skill and intelligence got her noticed by Slughorn.

Samantha-Hope//Slytherin

[et-tu-lj.livejournal.com]

I've often wondered why Draco wasn't included. While I don't think he's necessarily the brightest kid, I certainly don't think he's untalented. My personal theory (and us such, it is only an opinion), is that it's because his dad's a Death Eater. Slughorn, after the horcrux conversation, gave up his teaching position and fled. Since he didn't come back the entire time between wars, I believe he remembered just enough of the conversation to know LV would return, whether consciously or not. He disguised himself as a chair to avoid coming back, so I think that fear's still there. Lucius is in prison for being a DE, so Draco's familial connection isn't exactly hidden. I always interpreted Draco's exclusion as Slughorn wanting to stay as far as possible from anything to do with Voldemort.

Kimberly / Claw

[malfoymercy.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with everything you said as I pretty much have the same belief. One should be honored for what they can do, what they've done. NOT just who they are or the people they know.

Becky//Slytherin

[et-tu-lj.livejournal.com]

I have no issue with Slughorn's criteria, because we see in canon that he does not make his decisions based on purely external factors, like social class or wealth. Although that can influence it somewhat, someone with merit but w/o connections (like Ginny) can make it in, while some with connections (like Malfoy) did not. That said, I think I need to know a bit more about some of the people in the Slug Club to know whether I agree or not. For example, what did Blaise Zabini do to earn entrance? I think mainly, I don't object to his club, because I don't think it matters. There have always been clubs that are just about social networking, and Slughorn is at least up front about it. I personally wouldn't have been a part, because it's not my thing. But it's also the only ongoing event in the entire series that includes all FOUR houses, and for that I love the Slug Club.

Kimberly / Ravenclaw

[the-gubette.livejournal.com]

I think Slughorn just wanted to score with Zabini's mom. :)

[the-gubette.livejournal.com]

Above all else, Slughorn valued people who he felt would be successful in the future, because he wanted to be able to influence them (or at least make people think he could influence them). I don't think that Slughorn particularly cared for any of the students in his club, beyond how they could benefit him. That's why he asked the children of influential members of Wizarding society, and the occasional extremely skilled non-connected person.

For this reason, he had to make the Slug Club look exclusive, because who would want to join an "exclusive" club that allows just anyone in? If you think about it, it's a lot like the popular crowd in high school. The exclusivity is what makes people popular. Without it, no one cares. While I may not necessarily agree with it, I can understand why Slughorn felt the need to be so selective. It also gives a man with a Napoleon complex the opportunity to exert control over helpless students, but I digress.

Samantha-Hope//Slytherin

[et-tu-lj.livejournal.com]

I don't really remember anyone really wanting to be in the Slug Club. (There might've been a comment on the train, but I can't recall.) For the most part, it seemed like something they were invited to, and then felt obligated to attend. Which makes its "exclusive" appeal irrelevant. There probably are some kids who would've wanted to join, but through the majority of the kids we hear about, it seems more like they didn't feel they had a choice.

Kimberly/Ravenclaw

[malfoymercy.livejournal.com]

Well of course, be selective. Whats the point behind the idea of a 'club' if it's not just a little bit selective. I definitely think that because it is selective, it is more ..revered and especially draws more attention that way. Just not everyone is worthy of it.

Becky//Slytherin

[pasta-and-pepsi.livejournal.com]

As a trainee teacher I have particuarly strong feelings on the points of selection.

Just as I feel it is wrong to select children based on ability to attend any particular school, leaving those unselected with the opinion that they are unworthy and shall never amount to anything, the same is true for selecting people for particular clubs, leaving those outside the circle feeling unworthy of reaching particular goals and having to fight even harder for the same jobs just because others have a better name behind them than they do.

So no. I don't agree that selection is a good thing. I think that those with high enough ambitions to succeed and want a decent job is all that it takes - and so the only requirement to join such a club, should be someone wanting to. Give all those wanting to succeed a chance.

[the-gubette.livejournal.com]

How do you feel about having try-outs for certain groups? From sports to drama to the debate team, almost all of them have try-outs and make selections based on ability and performance. How does that fit in? I've always wondered about that.

Samantha-Hope//Slytherin

[et-tu-lj.livejournal.com]

You bring up good points, and with something like the Potions Club I would have an issue with it too. I think the reason it doesn't bug me too much for Slug Club is because I see it as a social club with little real value. The people, like Hermione and Harry, who don't go out of their way to use those connections will get nothing out of it. But since some of them, like the pro Quidditch player (whats-her-name?), obviously do, then your argument's definitely valid. I just hadn't thought of it that way, since I would've had no desire to be in it IRL.

Kimberly//Ravenclaw

[accountingwitch.livejournal.com]

Slughorn's criteria: can this person give me things in the future?

Slughorn described the people and gifts he received from these people, and it shows in the next batch of Slug Club members: Ginny, with possible hexing/Quidditch connections; Blaise, the lone son of a witch who is now extremely wealthy; Cormac, who won't shut up about his Quidditch potential.

I can see why Arthur Weasley was slighted: his interest in Muggle things wasn't particularly beneficial to Slughorn. Lucius may have been included because of this wizarding connections, but Draco's future is uncertain.

It's purely self-serving. I think he has little personal interest in how these people develop aside from how it helps him.

Elaine//Ravenclaw

[et-tu-lj.livejournal.com]

I hadn't thought about Ginny's Quidditch skills. I think he chooses primarily on personal benefit, but I had trouble fitting Ginny into that category. I didn't really see the benefit of a bat bogey hex, other than just going "Ohh, nifty magic." But not as something you could actually get any use out of. Your point makes her inclusion make more sense.

Kimberly/Ravenclaw

[andromeda0604.livejournal.com]

It seems that since The Slug Club is really a personal club and not a "Hogwarts" specific club the criteria can be whatever the professor wants it to be. I feel that if it were a "Hogwarts" club or activity sponsored by the school like in a muggle school (ie. yearbook club, glee club, or german club) it should be more inclusive and promote more student cohesion.


Andromeda//Hufflepuff

[the-gubette.livejournal.com]

Which also leads into a discussion of why Dumbledore would allow such an organized club in the first place. If Slughorn had played it off as a group of students who just happened to get together occasionally and hang out, that's one thing. But Slughorn made it clear that some students were invited and some were not. Is this really appropriate behavior for a professor? Not really. So why was it condoned?

Samantha-Hope//Slytherin

[et-tu-lj.livejournal.com]

I think you're right, it wasn't an official club so much as a social club, so he wouldn't have exactly been given a criteria. But as most schools would never allow professors to invite students to social occassions for purely personal reasons, it seems a bit shady to me. (But maybe it's different in countries where litigation isn't so constant, IDK.)

Kimberly//Ravenclaw

[silveredaccents.livejournal.com]

I think that Slughorn is a slightly deluded (or more than slightly depending on your criteria and perspective) character who wants what he wants. He created the Slug Club to help himself. That much is easy to see, but Slytherin rationales are rarely so simple. He created a club which would help those invited as well.

Do I like his criteria? I'm not sure. I'll be honest and say if I ended up invited, I'd like it. If not, I'd be irritable at his criteria. I've always wanted to belong, and anyone who makes me feel that way automatically has an edge in my life. Now, it doesn't rule me the way it did when I was younger, but it is something I will never fully escape.

Certainly, in less charged times, I imagine the Slug Club would be very positive for most if not all individuals involved. After all, it's a win-win. You get those with influence to see those with talent and then get to claim rights to having introduced them later. Everyone wins.

Kimberly ~ Slytherin

[valkyrie-lisa.livejournal.com]

I must agree, I like being told I belong as well. It makes you feel privileged, or at least accepted.

And now, as a job searcher, I really regret that I've never really taken the time to build up a network. What a powerful life tool Slughorn is giving to those kids!

Lisa//Slytherin

[painfullybored.livejournal.com]

Perhaps it's just been too long since I've read the book, but was Slughorn even aware of the fact that they called it the 'Slug Club'? Slughorn seems to me someone who likes to be amused, likes status, and this is simply the functional workings of what can be referred to as the 'Good Ol' Boys Club' (though absent and gender or racial overtones). Like salons, back in the day. Those beneath a certain status (innate connection, like Ginny) were permitted in because they were amusing, or popular, or something interesting.

I think many of us are rather the same in how we pick our own circles of friends: we look for someone who fits in. Which criteria we use often varies from person to person.

And I'd have joined. Social networks are v.handy things.

Lara||Slytherin

[rhye.livejournal.com]

Please do not delete this comment before April 13, 2009. It is part of the MCS Egg Hunt!

[valkyrie-lisa.livejournal.com]

My view of the Slug Club is that it's not so much an actual club as it is a gathering of, I don't know, teacher's pets, I suppose. In other words, it's not like The Elks or Boy Scouts or Masons where there are strict, written rules that must be obeyed and therefore those organizations can be held accountable by the public for their actions (such as when they refuse membership to certain demographic populations). It's more like an informal social gathering, though certainly with networking in mind, but with only one person deciding who's invited or who's not. As such, I think it's fair for Slughorn to invite whomever he wants. His requirements may be arbitrary or trivial, but I think that's his right.

Lisa//Slytherin

[painfullybored.livejournal.com]

I agree - there's no charter. They likely didn't take roll or vote on things. Slughorn wasn't grouping together a study group. There was something about the Slug Club party that sort of reminded me of Nearly Headless Nick's party - it was taking place in the school, but it was a purely activity. It's up to the host who to invite.

Lara//Slytherin

[malfoymercy.livejournal.com]

I would have to disagree on the teacher's pets theory. I don't think its like that at all. Slughorn and those in the club are basically just using one another to gain something, whether it be contacts in the future, new friends, popularity, the status of actually being in the club, what have you... I agree though that it is his club, therefore he should have full reign to do what he wants with it, especially invite or reject who he wants as well.

Becky//Slytherin

[malfoymercy.livejournal.com]

I like the way Slughorn thinks. He seems to have a sixth sense about knowing which individuals will be famous, intelligent, or useful in the future. He almost sees possibilities and then acts on it, knowing it will most likely be to the benefit in the future. Also, I like how refreshing it is that those chosen to be in the Slug Club are not simply picked on their social standing or the people they know, no matter how useful that may be. If one is smart or outstanding on their own, they should be set aside and above others, they have earned it. I approve.

Becky//Slytherin