Owl Post Secret Activity 1: The Secret of Magic

[brightflower]

Activity: The Secret of Magic
Points: Long debate: Participation 10pts, Additional comment: 2pts.
Deadline: April 22, 11:59 PM UTC
Details:

Let's jump right into the magical world's secrets with a debate on the biggest secret of all: the secret of magic itself.

What are your opinions on the International Statute of Secrecy? Is it a fair law? When is it okay to break the law and reveal the secret of magic to Muggles? And what would you do if a Muggle discovered your secret and tried to take advantage of it?

Initial comment of at least 150 words for 10 points, additional comments 2 points each. Let's get a conversation going!


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Comments

[caitieness.livejournal.com]

I certainly think its necessary because as the say goes, a person may be smart but people are stupid. If the whole of Muggles found out about magic, panic would ensue. Also, people hate things different then themselves and magic is definitely different. Muggles would fear wizards and, as it always goes, try to harm them or regulate them and I'm just envisioning magic internment camps or something. However, there should definitely be extenuating circumstances. Besides being able to perform magic in the face of legitimate danger (like Harry did when the Dementors attacked him and Dudley), there should be an exception for marriages! We know that sometimes wizards marry Muggles (Dean's parents and Cho Chang off the top of my head) and shouldn't these wizards be allowed to practice magic in view of their spouses? The law doesn't seem to extend to telling Muggles you are a wizard (see: all the muggleborn's parents) but only against doing magic. And that just doesn't seem fair to me. You may say, if you are going to marry a Muggle, this is a sacrifice you must make and I guess some people can make that sacrifice but I just don't think they should have to. Marriage law should cancel out the Statue of Secrecy. Because it's not illegal to practice magic in front of a Squib and isn't that kind of the same thing?

caitie / puff / 232 words

[bergeronprocess.livejournal.com]

Yes, absolutely--I'd like to believe in the goodness of people, but we both know for sure that people aren't always calm, cool and collected when faced with something different and something powerful. That's a great point about if you are betrothed to a Muggle. Marriage means no secrets, right? That means telling your spouse about something that is as much a part of you as your eyes or feet...and occasionally being able to do magic in front of them?

Emmapuff

[slumber.livejournal.com]

This is true. Individually everyone may be able to think rationally but there is just no accounting for mob mentality. Law-abiding citizens can run amok just with getting swept away by crowds, and I shudder to think what their reactions could be if magic is revealed to be real.

Evyclaw

[feuerfunke.livejournal.com]

I haven't thought about Muggle-Wizard relationships before. Seems kind of odd to me that the wizard or which isn't allowed to do magic as you mentioned.

On the other hand, parents of Muggleborn students know about magic and seem to see magic as well. Think about the Grangers visiting Diagon Alley or the spontaneous magic of the kid in question.

Kat//Hufflepuff

[kaitydid33087.livejournal.com]

You bring up a lot of good points.

Practicing magic in front of your spouse, should be an okay thing to do. I mean, what harm is going to come in performing a spell to chop carrots, or whatever. I mean would your spouse really be like "OH NO! I SAW YOU CHOP A CARROT!"? I don't think so. I mean, Petunia was afraid of Lily, for what seemed like a long while and resented her for her magic. But, I don't think she ever outright hated her. I think, in front of family, it should be okay to do.

7

[flyingharmony.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you- if the whole world found out about the Wizarding World, they'd flip out. Some in the negative sense, some in the positive sense, but they'd flip out; in the end, wizards would be blamed for everything that happens - the good and they're hyped, and the bad and they'll end up to be feared feared and hated. Muggle would try to control them, to use them and to just.. Well yeah, as you already said, to just regulate them, which really would be horrible.

Avipuff/8

[mmailliw.livejournal.com]

I think the International Statute of Secrecy is simply a Band-Aid (to borrow a Muggle term) on the real issue that Muggle technology is developing so much faster than the Wizarding version that, coupled with the much larger Muggle population, the Muggle world could easily exterminate the Wizarding world if they so choose.

One of the fics I read recently, one in which Harry keeps on reliving his life regardless of how he does, featured the Muggles finally discovering the Wizarding world sometime around 2007. The point was that with the Internet, YouTube, and similar phenomena, Muggles could broadcast the knowledge of Wizards in a convincing way faster than Wizards could Obliviate them... with YouTube posts, for example, having millions of viewers each scattered through the world! The way that particular fic dealt with the issue was that Harry knew of this discovery... and the Muggles subjugating Wizards in a war with very few magical people surviving by 2020 or 2030... and that therefore Muggles, not Voldemort, were the real problem to worry about.

Basically, it worked well enough at its purpose for a couple of centuries - but I simply don't see it holding up under 21st century technology!

William//Slytherin [197]

[caitieness.livejournal.com]

I never even thought about technology but it would probably be hard to fend against the Internet, especially since wizards know so little about it. I guess if wizards dedicated time to combating the Internet, they would be able to. Maybe they could invent a spell that makes it so that magic can't be recorded? Like how vampires can't be seen in the mirror?

caitie/puff

[bergeronprocess.livejournal.com]

Good point! Recently I read that the more "democratized" nature of broadcasting has made it somewhat harder to craft long-standing recognizable jokes about certain topics--this was a Guardian article in relation to how anyone can make a joke about Margaret Thatcher dying, so the well-known comics who were once the arbiters of comedy are now just one part of a large landscape of humor. So the same could be said of revealing magic, huh?

Emmapuff

[slumber.livejournal.com]

That's a very good point, but I think it speaks more to the wizarding world's short-sightedness than in whether or not they SHOULD be keeping themselves secret. It just proves that secrets are harder to keep, and if even Muggle-loving wizards can't figure out how to work a blasted telephone (or even what to call it-- his enthusiasm is sweet but if Muggles were a fandom then Arthur Weasley is an awful fan-- shouldn't he know as much about it as possible? He works in the government office dedicated to Misuse of Muggle objects!) then they are so shamefully behind.

Evyclaw

[kaitydid33087.livejournal.com]

That is a great point you bring up

Its interesting though, cause you bring up a good point, that Muggles would eradicate Wizards faster than Wizards could Obliviate memories.

Its kind of a scary thought, though. Yeah...real scary.

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[flyingharmony.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't express it in such a drastic way, but I really like your way of thinking; technology-wise, wizards really aren't the most revolutionary, and Muggles are obviously many steps ahead of them in that case, but I'm not sure by how much Technology would win over magic in the end; there's no doubt that in certain cases, Muggles - to put it in your words - were the real problem to worry about, but there are also branches that will also be ruled by magic. In the end, I can totally see the danger in technology, though!

Avipuff/7

[slumber.livejournal.com]

This is difficult to argue one way or another, in part because I think a lot of the topic covers what if situations and may delve into fear-mongering. On one hand, I can see where the concerns of magical folk lie-- they don't want Muggles to take advantage of the magic that they possess, and they most certainly don't wish to encourage a repeat of the witch hunts that happened in ages past. Magic is honestly just a volatile resource whose discovery could very easily be detrimental to all of wizarding society.

On the other hand, how ~fair~ is it to have certain magical dangers present and potentially bleeding into the Muggle world exist whilst Muggles are completely unaware of it? I suppose the way the Ministry of Magic has it set up now, with liaisons established for Muggle government, serves to address that issue, and I guess, for what it's worth, they seem to be doing a decent job of helping cover up magic while also ensuring Muggles remain safe.

So at the end of the day I think there is inherently no harm in upholding the International Statute of Secrecy, but I would seriously consider looking into alternatives should the secret ever come out. Doesn't hurt to be ready in case disaster strikes!

Evyclaw

[bergeronprocess.livejournal.com]

Disaster has struck before--in Voldemort's reign of terror, with the "natural disasters" like the bridge and all of that, and that's when the liaison to the Muggle government needed to be used. The Muggle PM was good at basically keeping the secret of this...peculiar adviser type person, but what if a former PM, later in life, revealed everything? That breaks the statute, right? I guess someone just goes and Oblivates everyone.

The concern over what could happen when Muggles are suffused with fear is so real. SO REAL. Many smarter minds than mine have devoted studies to seeing just how inhuman people get when they are in a large group and not in their right mind. It ain't pretty and it could, like you said, be very bad for magical people.

Emmapuff

[kaitydid33087.livejournal.com]

I agree, it is difficult. Because on the one hand, you see something happen, and you think "What the heck happened?!". I mean, sometimes what you see is by accident, and what the Wizard did in front of the Muggle was on purpose.

But then take Harry and Dudley's circumstance. They were in front of Dementors, and only Harry could save Dudley's life. So, in that case, I would think its okay to do it in front of a Muggle, in extreme cases.

But I think on a day to day basis, hiding magic is ridiculous. I don't see why Wizards and Muggles couldn't live in harmony. But of course, you think of things like the Salem Witch Trials, and Joan of Arc. I mean, bad things happen to everyone, everywhere, on an unfair basis everyday. But still, I don't see why we can't all live peacefully and happily.

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[flyingharmony.livejournal.com]

The Ministry of Magic certainly has connections to the Muggle Ministry, so they will figure out plans what to do when magical dangers/catastrophe start to also affect the Muggle world, but what I keep on asking myself is how they'll explain the happenings to the Muggles - it'll take ages and a lot of effort to invent a proper story to explain certain magical pheomenons, and lying to the Muggle society really isn't the best idea, either. So, at some point something has to be explaine dwith magic...

Avipuff/6

[bergeronprocess.livejournal.com]

The International Statute of Secrecy is kind of a double-edged sword: it does help keep the magical community safe from the way Muggles can sometimes enter the crowd mentality and lose their sense of individual morals, rights and wrongs, etc. because of what the group is thinking. If the group is thinking that the person with the ~special powers~ really has an unfair advantage and, hm, maybe needs to be silenced somehow...that's very dangerous. But at the same time, what if Muggle and magical people could live in good harmony with magical people out in the open? Imagine how they could help each other! Could potions help cure the sicknesses that ail Muggles? Cancer and such? Never once was the word cancer mentioned in the entire Harry Potter canon, leading me to wonder if it even exists or if some sort of potion kills the bad cells before they start to affect people. Muggles would benefit from that knowledge and could help magical people navigate the confusing aspects of the Muggle world. But again, you have to be cognizant of what could happen if people give in to their darkest thoughts and worst intentions instead of working for a better world for everyone.

Emmapuff, 203 words

[slumber.livejournal.com]

The overriding thought with Muggles benefiting from magic is that they'll think everything can be solved, and thus.. problems, but I think there is also some merit in understanding that magic by itself does not eradicate all problems. This isn't necessarily something Muggles can understand though, at least not right away. And I think to a certain extent what's giving the wizarding community pause now is just how huge a news like this could be-- what are the logistics of revealing magic exists, how do you pull off this revelation without inciting mass panic or riots?

Evyclaw

[passerine.livejournal.com]

(not reading any other comments before I post my first one)

I think the Statute is really important and definitely fair. People are not extremely willing to accept the idea of magic, it's always considered an evil force. Think of the Salem Witch Trails, for instance. While I think the Muggle world is more tolerant than it used to be, it's not hard to imagine a huge backlash if people knew that there were actual wizards and witches and other supposedly mythological and imaginary creatures roaming the world. Muggles have something to lose without the ability to protect themselves against magic, so I could imagine more and more witch hunts and a whole lot of chaos and insanity and death and uggghhh. I would love to think that this wouldn't happen, but there are so many countries that have such a complex about perceived threats that I can't really ignore the plausibility of full scale war against the wizarding world because who knows what they're capable of.

i think it's okay to break it in cases of marriage and other things like that. If a witch or wizard can't perform magic in front of their Muggle spouse... well, something just seems wrong about that to me. "Don't be who you naturally are when the person you devoted your life to is in your presence". Yeah, okay.

As for cases of muggles discovering and taking advantage of their knowledge of someone being magical, I think there should be a department in the ministry that deals with this. The wizard who's been found out would contact the Ministry and then they would send off a very specialized Ministry employee to use memory charms on that person (instead of the wizard doing it themselves, because not everyone is great at memory charms and you would only want to erase that one bit of information... anything more is just cruel imo).

Julia // Gryffindor

[slumber.livejournal.com]

The Muggle world is still not as tolerant as it can be, to add another point there. And add to that the idea that this new kind of people actually have abilities that can be viewed as superior to what Muggles can do? Yikes, witch hunts are almost an inevitability! We fear what we don't understand.

Evyclaw

[brightflower]

I personally feel that the Statute in and of itself is fair, because of the ways in which Muggles would inevitably react if they were to find out about the magical world. It seems to me that most people have a tendency to be selfish and want to use things for their own personal gain. Tapping into the magical world would have dire consequences; Muggles would insist on having the ability to use magical people for their own purposes. It would be chaos. I can easily see trials against wizards on trumped-up charges, and if the wizards used magic to escape (like Apparating out of prison cells and the like), it would only enrage Muggles further. It would dissolve into warfare as Muggle and magic weapons are pitted against one another for one imagined slight or another. Really, the magical population feels safer under the statute, and I can't disagree with them on that.

However, the means of enforcing the statute make me uncomfortable. Obliviating seems like such a cruel punishment to a person. I hate to use the word "rape," but invading somebody's brain and wiping their memories away against their will, just because they happened to see something magical, seems really violating to me. Perhaps a better idea would be a binding spell of some sort, so that the Muggle cannot speak or communicate about what they have seen? That seems a little less harsh. Then again, it leaves them to realize what has happened and recognize their punishment for what it is, which is also not a very pleasant consequence. It just seems unfair to me because it's not like that person did anything wrong. The magical person did the wrong thing, by allowing their abilities to be seen. So why punish the innocent bystander?

But that leaves the question of what, then, to do when this sort of thing occurs. Incorporate Muggles into the magical society, and deal with the consequences of that as they arise? Who knows what could happen?

As for when it is okay to break the statute, I would like to say that people should be able to use magic if they need to save somebody's life, like in an emergency situation. Then, look, superheroes could be a real thing! People might then start begging that wizard/witch to use magic to do things for them, too, though. I don't know, it's such a complicated issue. I guess I'd just resign myself to keeping the status quo, because I'm not wise enough to come up with a more suitable answer.

Crystalpuff

[slumber.livejournal.com]

It's tough, definitely, because you're inherently deciding you know better than another group of people about what information they can know. Isn't that in and of itself a little bit unfair? Or... I don't know. Maybe not entirely, but the fact that there is danger in the secret getting out certainly has to play a role in it too. I feel like this is the kind of "for the greater good" thinking that Dumbledore and Grindelwald toyed with, to a certain extent.

Evyclaw

[feuerfunke.livejournal.com]

I think the International Statute of Secrecy is a very important law, to protect Muggles and Wizards alike. First, Wizards are prevented to use magic on Muggles, who are very defenseless in this case. I mean, without the law, wizards could take advantage of Muggles, rob them, make them work for them, you get the idea. Of course, that might still happen with the International Statute of Secrecy in place, but it makes it harder and the prospect of punishment might even work, too.

On the other hand, Muggles could take advantage of Wizards and therefore Magic, as well. I'm thinking of Muggle dictators using a wizard or two to suppress their people without other Muggle countries even able to figure it out.

The exceptions mentioned in the books sound reasonable to me. If there's a life threatening situation and one uses magic to safe one's own life while Muggles are present or to save the Muggles' life, it is reasonable to use magic and breach the statute.

Kat//Hufflepuff//168 words

[flyingharmony.livejournal.com]

Oh! I never thought that the law is also important for protecting Muggles - you're definitely right about that, though, it's a huge advantage that Muggles are prevented form being attacked defenselessly. And again you're right that this of course might happen even with the law (if everybody strictly followed the law, there'd not be any crimes - in the case of the Statue of Secrecy also no Muggle-Wizard marriages, which, again, is a disadvantage), but it makes the Muggle world a lot safer - at least from Wizards.

Avipuff/2

[smash-leigh.livejournal.com]

I feel the issue bends both ways. On the one hand keeping magic a secret from Muggles is a crucial thing that should be respected by all witches and wizards, because as sad as it is true, many Muggles would want to take advantage of powers witches and wizards possess. There are already wizards and witches using their gifts for evil, adding a world of Muggles into the picture would only worsen that. However, I can see how it would be argued that there are many positive things that could benefit from the world-wide knowledge of magic and the wizarding community, such as certain medical issues for example.

That being said, those who are exposed to magic who do not possess it themselves from what we know is the parents of witches and wizards who would hopefully not take advantage of their son or daughter's powers and instead try to be supportive, but if other family members were to find out and let it slip to their friends they might not be the case, so my point is that the law is rather susceptible to circumstance and figuring out where the line is drawn is a tricky matter that does not always end up falling on the side of justice.

Ashleigh//Hufflepuff//210 words.

[flyingharmony.livejournal.com]

I agree, the imagination of Wizards and Muggles working together in the name of the evil really is pretty creepy, and in that way the law really is crucial; generally, Muggles keeping on to advantage of those who possess magical abilities aren't nice at all, which is something I admittedly haven't even thought of; but I also agree with you on your other point - you're completely right, the difficulty lies in finding the line.

Avipuff/1

[flyingharmony.livejournal.com]

The law is definitely one of the most necessary ones in the Wizarding World; we know how Muggles have reacted to wizards and witches and to the general thought of magic in the past, and while I think that in modern times people are much more educated and fascinated by the entire topic, I don't think that the entire Wizarding World would have that much of a good life anymore; just imagine how they'd be haunted by curious Muggles! With the Statue of Secrecy, Wizards/Witches might be stared at way of clothing, but if they were known to be Magical people, they wouldn't be safe from cameras or people asking them to perform random magic tricks anymore.This, however, would be the most positive case; what, if they'd encounter less tolerant people (e.g. Dursleys and worse)? Would they even be able to live a normal and calm life? Most likely they wouldn't - I'm quite sure that some of them would even be in danger. Of course this doesn't mean that not a single Muggle should know about the Wizarding World -we know very well that some Wizards marry Muggles and that these relationships work well, but if everybody knew, it'd likely end in a catastrophe.

Avipuff
(206 words)

[flipflop-diva.livejournal.com]

Ha. I didn't even think about them being put on display like that, but you are right! I just think in general that there would be problems. I mean, look at the problems we already have in this world with people not being able to accept others for who they are, so all of a sudden introducing people who could do magic to that? There would be so much chaos. (There is a reason almost all TV shows and movies that have "magic" keeps this magic hidden from the outside world!)


Kristine | Puff

[kaitydid33087.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure. On one hand, I would think it would be nessiscary, because of course Muggles seeing magic, could lead to strange questions and Muggles wanting to be wizards too. But at the same time, I think if in an extreme case, you could reveal your magic, and that would be okay too. Like, if you were in a life or death situation, and the only thing that would save you, would be your magic, then I think that'd be okay to reveal your magic. I think, if a Muggle found out I was a Wizard, and tried to take advantage of it, I'd stick up for myself. Sure, he could spread it to his friends, but would his friends believe me? How would he have firm proof that I was a Wizard? I mean, you can only prove so much. So, I don't think that we really need the International Statue of Secrecy. I think that Muggles and Wizards, could live openly, and peacefully.

[flipflop-diva.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if Muggles and wizards could live openly and peacefully — at least, not without a huge transition period, since a lot of people in this world are not known for their open-mindness — but I do agree that magic should be forgiven in life-or-death situations. Or even in situations where you could save someone else by magic. Like if I saw my Muggle sibling about to be hit by a car, you can best believe I would use magic to save her!


Kristine | Puff

[flipflop-diva.livejournal.com]

I have a lot of thoughts on this, and they are a bit conflicting. I guess I will say that it’s good to a certain extent. Because the history of the world has proven that people do not always react well to change and to things they can’t understand, and if suddenly there were witches and wizards out and about in the Muggle world, they probably would be in serious danger and might be burned at the stake. So in terms of keeping themselves safe, yes, it is definitely necessary.

What I have a hard time with is that I feel the law contributes to a huge gap between wizards and muggles, where some wizards have no desire whatsoever to want to learn about muggles. But the way I see it, wizards are still humans, and even if they have powers other people don’t, they really still should be concerned with the world in general and the people in it. I think wizards knowing and understanding muggles more would be a good thing (plus, then if a muggle accidentally discovers magic being done by someone they know and trust, they are much more likely to accept it. As I assume most of the Muggle parents of half-blood children have done once they realized their child had magical powers. I imagine most parents are more like Hermione’s and less like the Dursleys).

Okay, and now that I read this over, I guess the second paragraph doesn’t really have much to do with the law itself, it’s just a consequence of it. But STILL.


Kristine | Puff | 262 non-sensical words sorry

[kaitydid33087.livejournal.com]

I think, that if we all took the time to learn about one another, we could live in harmony. Like you kind of mention in your second paragraph.

Its hard to judge how people react though, but, really, I just want everyone to get along and live peacefully.

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