Healers' Association of Hogwarts 24.1 Safety of St Mungos

[pretty-panther.livejournal.com]

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Activity Name: Safety of St Mungos
Deadline: 31st October 11.59pm UTC
Points:Long debate: Participation 10pts, Additional comment: 2pts.
Details:Debate on whether the St Mungos system of only having one magical hospital for the nation is suitable or dangerous considering it could be attacked. On one hand, it keeps things central and the type of healer needed is always on hand but on the other if it was taken over, there is no other hospital ect. Debate it out. :)


Getting this club up and running has been a trial with the system so sorry this is so late in the month. I figured we had enough time to get it done though so jump right in!


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Comments

[c-hrista.livejournal.com]

I'm a fan of diversifying so there's always a back up plan. Even at work, I get frustrated if there's only one person able to complete a task -- it creates a Single Point of Failure, should that person be out sick or want to go on vacation or something. I'm not sure about the number of wizards in Britain, but it seems dangerous to only have the one magical hospital for the area. If there was any kind of terrorist activity there, what would happen with magical healthcare? Granted, it seems like many wizards/witches were at least a little versed in Healing spells/potions, but it'd be terrifying to have to rely on an unschooled person for healthcare should something happen to St. Mungos.

Christa / Slytherin

[slumber.livejournal.com]

Oh god, I agree with the risk associated with a Single Point of Failure -- there's just too much relying on things running as efficiently as possible to take that risk. I think JKR mentioned there were 3000 wizards in Britain, which to me seems a bit small because she also said there were "thousands" of students in Hogwarts, plus the wizarding society seems plenty robust to me.

Evyclaw

[daisychain-xx.livejournal.com]

I can see why it might be practical to have just a singular health care complex as wizards from all over can reach it easily. Unlike the muggle world where if there were only one hospital, in London for example, then people from Aberdeen wouldn't be able to visit it very often. However, I think Chrisa is right, there is just far too much risk involved in having one establishment. There are far too many followers of darker magic to believe that a revolt can not, and will never take place again. If there can be more than one place to study the magical world, then why not more than one place to remedy the illnesses that it's inhabitants suffer?

Claire/Hufflepuff

[slumber.livejournal.com]

I think if the argument is that wizards can all reach the one place easily via Floo or Apparition or anything else, then they can reach other hospitals just as easily as well. If it's a matter of centralising so that all the specialists can be found in just one place, you can still say the physical location of everyone doesn't matter because there are easy ways to travel in between, right?

Can you imagine if St Mungo's were the only hospital around and then it got attacked? Hogwarts' Hospital wing would be inundated!

Evyclaw

[daisychain-xx.livejournal.com]

That's the point I was trying to make, I just didn't make it very well lol. I was saying that while I can understand where that arguement could come from, it would make much more sense to support more than one complex.

Claire/Hufflepuff

[slumber.livejournal.com]

Oh, I got what you meant, I was just adding to it by thinking out loud. XD Besides the centralization of resources (which is pretty easily addressed by most everyone here) I don't think I can come up with any other argument supporting one hospital either.

Evyclaw

[bergeronprocess.livejournal.com]

It's not a good idea. The location is inconvenient for those located in the north of the UK--let alone Northern Ireland--and even Hogwarts students who may need further medical care may find the journey not to their liking. Can the very ill be moved by way of Side-Along Apparition or Floo powder? I can't imagine it would be much fun. (Imagine someone vomiting profusely--maybe vomiting slugs, whatever--who needs care but cannot speak or do anything. If you're tasked with taking them to the hospital, you better put on a poncho or something.)

For that reason, it might be more logical for St. Mungo's to have smaller satellite locations of their hospitals in areas with known Wizarding populations. It's like here in DeKalb County, there's one giant DeKalb Medical Center near our house, but then in the southwest of the county there's a campus, there's a smaller campus in downtown Decatur, etc. There are WellStar hospitals all over the suburbs and exurbs. Children's Healthcare of Atlanta has big central hospitals but also smaller satellites to help deal with minor sicknesses and injuries for convenience. It's a good idea to not put all your eggs in one basket, but it is okay to have more intensive stuff in one location.

Emma//Hufflepuff

[slumber.livejournal.com]

Oh, I like this rationale that transportation between locations still wouldn't be ideal because of how the ill/injured would have to be moved. I wonder if there are "wizarding ambulances", kind of like the Knight Bus but for hospital transfers?

Evyclaw

[storminmay]

HAI NAMETWIN! :3 I like your ideas of a large, general hospital (St. Mungo's, obvs), but also smaller hospitals for specialized care. It'd certainly make the wizard E.R. flow more smoothly, if it's anything like E.R.s here in the U.S.!

Emma//Ravenclaw

[storminmay]

I wonder if there ARE other St. Mungo's locations that we haven't heard about? Because even while reading the books I was all "Why is there only one wizard hospital?" But I thought the same about wizard schools until GoF revealed there are other schools of magic. But if St. Mungo's really does only have one location, that seems incredibly unrealistic. It could very easily be attacked, yes, because we've seen throughout the series that even the most protected of magical places can be corrupted. How would the Healers get all of the patients out if an attack happened? Do they have a system in place for that? Can you Apparate a building? It seems incredibly dangerous.

Also, as others have mentioned, how inconvenient would that be if you've been severely injured and need to get there via Side-Along Apparation or Floo Powder or other magical means of travel? Count me out.

Emma//Ravenclaw

[bergeronprocess.livejournal.com]

I agree, nametwin! While I think it's okay for there to be one wizarding school in the UK--seeing as Muggles have far-flung boarding schools too--when it comes to matters of life and death and every second counts, that's a little more different than sending little Jimmy off to school for the term.

Also, CAN you Apparate a building?! These are things I want to know!!

Emma//Hufflepuff

[slumber.livejournal.com]

Oh god, building Apparition sounds crazy! I'm not sure that's entirely doable, but I am interested in what kinds of Architectural charms exist. We know you can make rooms bigger, change them so they're like the Room of Requirement... I wonder what security measures St Mungo's DOES have in place though. If they can't Apparate a building maybe there's a "room" that leads to a shelter or something, in case of attack. Like the wardrobe that led to Narnia?

Evyclaw

[slumber.livejournal.com]

I like to think there are other hospitals, we've just been offered a glimpse of one in particular. I'm not even entirely sure the five St Mungo's wards cover all sorts of ailments wizards can suffer, either. Surely there must be other locations all over the country, right?

Evyclaw

[storminmay]

I'd imagine there have to be specialty hospitals, because wizards can't possibly have so few ailments when they're capable of such vast amounts of magic. At least, that's how it seems in my mind. It'd make way more sense for there to be other locations that treat certain specialties (maybe they're sorted according to region, for those kinds of ailments?).

Emma/Ravenclaw

[slumber.livejournal.com]

Too many things can go wrong with potions alone for me to feel completely comfortable knowing just one ward in a hospital is around to treat any potions-related disaster!

On a semi-related tangent, where does all their potions research live? Does the wizarding world have the equivalent of the CDC? /may have been reading too many zombie scifis

Evyclaw

[scarletladyy.livejournal.com]

I'd never really thought about it before, but now you mention it, I think it's rather silly to just have one hospital for the whole of the UK! I mean, it's not as if a Healer working at St Mungo's that was required across the other side of the country couldn't get there within seconds, is it? If Healer Day was the best Potions doctor in the wizarding world, and was at St Mungo's when he was needed at another hospital, he could get there by Apparition or Floo straight away. Unlike the Muggle world, they're not confined to their hospitals, so it makes sense to have more than one.

There's the obvious danger issue of if something ever happened to it (attack or burning down or even a corruption within the staff) as well, and I know the wizarding population isn't that big, but what if it ever got full? Like, after a battle or something? Or what if, because there's only one hospital, there aren't enough Healers?

What do we want? MORE HOSPITALS! When do we want them? NOW!

Fairy//Hufflepuff

[bergeronprocess.livejournal.com]

Ooh, a great point about healers being able to go to other locations quickly. Healers and trainee healers can do residencies and other studies (like if they go into a specialty and want to research it) at other hospitals with great ease! They can just Apparate or Floo home at the end of the day. It works well!

Emma//Hufflepuff

[slumber.livejournal.com]

And there's the thing, too-- IS St Mungo's big enough to house all the specialties in Healing that it can teach all the residents possible? Maybe there aren't many that graduate from the different schools, but surely there would be a variety of interests. Does St Mungo's even have a ressearch program/wing/what-have-you? Where do all the witches and wizards interested in those things go?

Evyclaw

[scarletladyy.livejournal.com]

Exactly! You could even have specialist units in different places, and it wouldn't matter too much because like you say, they can Apparate or Floo!

Fairy//Hufflepuff

[slumber.livejournal.com]

Yes, this exactly! LOL at your protesting, but I do think the Ministry would be flirting with danger if they thought only one hospital would work. Plus, forget the government, surely a businessman could see the need for more than one institution and have one built, if they haven't already!

Evyclaw

[scarletladyy.livejournal.com]

Aye, it does seem really strange that they only have one! I can see why a businessman hasn't opened one though, for it would be a little redundant since everyone can go to St Mungo's for free! The only people I can see paying for their healthcare are the Malfoys and the other Purebloods (we know what they're like!), and there aren't that many left anymore (and you have Purebloods like the Weasleys and Lovegoods too). Plus, from what I remember, St Mungo's was amazing, and any private hospital would need to be able to top that.

Even if they didn't want to open up a whole new hospital, they could have smaller units in different places across the UK?

Fairy//Hufflepuff

[slumber.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how healthcare works in the UK, oops, but I assumed even if patients didn't have to pay for the treatment themselves insurance companies would, and that's where the money would come from to run the hospitals. How do doctors get paid in the UK? (I'm assuming that model is what St Mungo's is patterned after.)

Evyclaw

[scarletladyy.livejournal.com]

No worries :) The government pays for the NHS (National Health Service) and everything involved (hospitals, doctors etc.) from general taxation, so there aren't any insurance companies as we don't need to buy insurance; everyone is entitled to just walk into a hospital or make a doctors appointment and be treated (this doesn't include private healthcare or hospitals of course, you need insurance for them I believe, but the NHS is the majority of the healthcare provided in the UK).

I think St Mungo's is modelled after the NHS too, since JKR is British and there's no mention of paying anywhere in the books (plus, the Weasleys said they were in and out of there when Fred and George were kids, and I don't think they'd have been able to afford to do that if it wasn't free!).

Fairy//Hufflepuff
PS. Sam, you don't have to give points for this if you don't want to! ♥

[slumber.livejournal.com]

I think you just made America weep. XD

That makes sense -- I guess private healthcare would make sense if there were a section of the public that didn't think they'd receive the treatment they needed if they weren't paying for it (and as you said, you couldn't imagine a family like the Malfoys going to a public hospital; plus with the way the wizarding world seems a little entrenched in the traditional, it's not too hard to think that rich pureblood families might have their own Healers paying them home visits and whatnot either!) but in general, government-owned institutions would probably be the norm, yeah.

Thanks for explaining this to me, Fairy!

Evyclaw
PS. Sam, same comment as Fairy's, no need to count this for points since it went a little off-tangent. :)

[scarletladyy.livejournal.com]

Aww xD

Yeah, very true!

No worries :)

Fairy//Hufflepuff
PS. Still same as earlier, Sam xD

[slumber.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's smart, because it makes the hospital such a vulnerable target, intentional or none. If something terrible happens to it either via a dark wizard attack or a natural calamity that makes it unstable/inaccessible/etc for the moment, then who else have wizards got? I'm not sure the benefits of a centralized system is worth the catastrophe that might befall patients in case the hospital becomes unusable. The wizarding world has advanced transportation systems that can make transfer between hospitals easy anyway.

Evyclaw

[storminmay]

I wonder how they'd transfer patients between hospitals, though. Floo powder? The Knight Bus? (That might make them more sick...) Side-Along Apparation? I guess it would depend on the ailment, but if I'm a witch who is bleeding uncontrollably then none of these sound particularly appealing, LOL.

And if they had to move patients and Healers en masse...that'd be such a headache! Glad I don't have that job!

Emma//Ravenclaw

[pretty-panther.livejournal.com]

I think in the case of transferring sick patients, we have to account for the world having magic. I would assume that they would be able to put patients in some sort of stasis in order to transfer them. Something akin to petrifying almost?

Sam/Puff

[interchanges.livejournal.com]

Considering the size of the wizarding population in Britain, it makes sense that there's only one wizard hospital. I imagine if there were other hospitals, they wouldn't be as busy. But at the same time, safety is an issue, as if something happened to St. Mungo's- an attack or a highly contagious plague, etc. it would be pretty vulnerable. I also wonder how wizards get the injured to St. Mungo's so quickly. It would make sense to maybe have some small clinics throughout the country that were magically connected so a patient could get emergency treatment if needed and then transferred over to the main branch for recovery. These clinics could also be utilized in the case that St. Mungo's is compromised.

Chelsea/Ravenclaw

[pretty-panther.livejournal.com]

I think this clinic idea would be very beneficial! It would also perhaps help in keeping the St Mungos wards free in times of crises for serious cases, for example if there was an attack of some sort on Diagon Alley. The injured could be in St Mungos while people recovering from another ailment could be in a smaller clinic, freeing up space no?

Sam/Puff

[pretty-panther.livejournal.com]

I think that the system of having only one hospital is very dangerous but at the same time, having all of the government officials based at the same place is dangerous too and that is pretty common practice. To argue the other way, financially having one hospital might be the sound option for the wizarding world. Location is not a problem as floo and apparation allow a witch in the North of Scotland to be in London in an instant. Rather than having to finance the same equipment over and over again in several smaller hospitals, having the one building and less equipment sitting unused at a time allows more funds to be used elsewhere such as research into curing long term patients such as the Longbottoms.

Sam/Puff