Divination Club: Trelawney vs Firenze

[xfortytwo.livejournal.com]

Activity: 24 hour debate: Trelawney vs Firenze
Points: Participation 10pts, Additional comment: 5pts. 30pts limit.
Deadline: October 28th at 2 AM UTC (Timezones) (which is in the evening October 27th for US-ers, just to make sure no one is confused!)
Details:

I have a question on my roster where I ask people if they prefer Trelawney or Firenze and it's pretty much split down the middle, so now I'm really curious about your reasons!

Which one do you prefer: Trelawney or Firenze?
Why?

And here are some additional thoughts/questions if you run out of things to talk about regarding Trelawney and Firenze:
Are there any other character in HP verse that you think would fit the position as Divination Professor?
How do you think Divination classes would've been if Snape taught them?

Please leave a fairly substantial reasoning for your choice. I want at least a few lines of reasoning.
- Your replies to others should also have substance and not only be 'I agree!', etc. Points for further comments are at my discretion :)
- Be respectful in your replies, guys. Disagreeing is allowed, but be cool about it!


PS: Remember that the Tarot Stamping is still going on until October 29th! Click here to participate in that


The spirits are telling me that you will need to sign up on The Roster!

Comments

Questions? :D

[xfortytwo.livejournal.com]

♥

[xfortytwo.livejournal.com]

Pst!
Please leave a comment with your name and house :)

- Ing

[missrobyn81.livejournal.com]

ahahahaha thats what I get for sneezing and hitting the post button.

[mrschucknoblet.livejournal.com]

I perfer Trelawney. I don't know if I would necessarily want to be taught by her, but I really enjoy her personality and her character in general. I feel as though she really, seriously loves Divination and wants to teach the children, she just doesn't really know how to understand how to deal with children. Firenze is awesome and a total badass, but I think I would just be overwhelmed in his class. Trelawney to me is much more fun spirited and seems to really enjoy what she does, which is a big part of how much I relate to a teacher. Plus movie!trelawney is played by Emma Thompson, and I think we all know she is perfection.

Courtney Rose//Puff

[rvillarrubia.livejournal.com]

I choose Trelawney because she has the inner eye (and because she is Emma Thompson). Trelawney has to be the funniest teacher in Hogwarts! I know that her classes are always portrayed as boring and dull, but I only have to imagine how she look to start smiling! And well, she did the famous Prophecy, so I'm sure she knows about the subject more that is shown!
Firenze is awesome too, but he seems to be more serious when discussing things.

And about your question regarding Snape, I'm not sure, haha. I never thought about it before but I think he would be a good teacher but more because he knew Occlumency than because he really knew how to divinate...

Ruth // Slytherin

[kilobites.livejournal.com]

I prefer Firenze in terms of thinking about whose class I'd actually prefer to take. While I love Trelawny, find her amusing, and think that she's an integral part of the plot, I probably wouldn't want to take a class with her as much as I'd want to with Firenze. Trelawny certainly does have insightful comments, but those moments are also offset by a certain amount of ridiculousness. I loved reading about it, and I couldn't help but laugh a lot of times when Harry was in her class, but it didn't seem like people learned very much.

Firenze isn't as entertaining as Trelawny, but I think he might have a more insightful class where you would learn more about divination. I think his discussions also might be more in depth than Trelawny's, and probably more serious. He seems like a better teacher overall, if tougher, but I will never abandon my love for Trelawny as a character!

Tasha//Gryffindor

[missrobyn81.livejournal.com]

If Snape taught, I think the class would be empty. lol I dunno he just doesn't seem like he'd fit in as a Divinations professor. I had chosen Firenze because he seems so insightful and would enjoy a good discussion. Trelawney, while I do love her, she seems to be able to have her moments few and far between. Granted I haven't re-read the books in a while (I have to pace myself otherwise I get really bad headaches, and reading while you're ill... not a good idea lol), but from what I remember, Firenze had more knowledge towards things. I really need to read these books again (I would now but I'm reading two books a friend of mine has published... gah I need to make a reading list for myself!).

Robyn // Hufflepuff

[kissoffools.livejournal.com]

I prefer Firenze. I think his type of divination is much more based on facts and on science (well, as much as the movement of planets can be considered science) than Trelawny's is. I do think Trelawny is a gifted Seer, but I don't think she has the type of Seeing that can be taught or instructed to others - she herself is barely aware of it when it happens for real. Firenze, while he may speak in riddles and never give a straight answer, at least has the planets to be able to act as a visual for his class. His class doesn't simply require Sight - students can do well if they learn about the movements of the stars and planets, as well.

I love Trelawny and I think she'd be quite entertaining to have as a professor, but overall, I think Firenze's method and styles of teaching Divination is more appropriate for a classroom setting.

Janna/Hufflepuff

[clzair.livejournal.com]

I don't think Snape would have any tolerance fro the subject of Divination, himself, so I feel like that class would not be interesting or educational in any way whatsoever.
I don't really think anyone else would fit the position as Divination Professor - I think some people may have more tolerance for it than others, but you would need someone really interested in the subject and willing to teach a bunch of teenage students on it, which I don't think would happen.

In terms of the Firenze vs. Trealwney debate, I prefer Firenze. While Trelawney clearly does have the power of Sight, she is not good at teaching Divination and does not really seem to have a grasp on the separate disciplines. Just because you have Sight does not mean you are well educated or trained in crystal ball gazing, tea leaf reading, dream deciphering, etc. It is one thing to be a Seer and a totally different thing to be a Divination professor. Obviously, Dumbledore had legitimate reasons to keep Trelawney around, but unfortunately, I think she failed in her teaching knowledge or abilities.
One of the main reasons I like Firenze is that he is very straightforward about the art of Divination. He admits to his students that even centaurs or people who study it all their lives will never be fully certain in things they see or predict, and seems to really convey to them that the subject is a dying practice. It becomes apparent in his class that Divination is not about seeing things in mere everyday objects (tea leaves, orbs), but observing naturally occurring things, such as the planets, fire, and nature. In this way, I think he is also better than Trelawney at showing that Divination is really a science of observing nature rather than trying to see or find something.
This is why I like Firenze better than Trelawney - while he is very upfront about the hopelessness of studying Divination, he is also clearly very wise and rather learned in the subject, whereas Trelawney simply relies on her crazy aura to assert her as educated in the arts of prediction, etc.
As Dumbledore had said (or sort of said), teaching Divination is nearly impossible. You cannot teach someone to have the gift of Sight, and if they do indeed have it, which in itself is extremely rare, taking Divination would simply not be useful at all. Therefore, it stands to reason for me to assume that Trelawney as a professor is basically useless, while Firenze can at least a little bit of Divination that can be learned, although over a lifetime rather than just a school time. I would rather have him as a professor if the class had to be taught at all.

Claire//Hufflepuff

[icewindfirex.livejournal.com]

Firenze will always be my favorite Divination professor. I can't stand Trelawney. She's a fraud. I don't think students should take a course where they can't learn ANYTHING - especially if they have actual interest in divination. Trelawney's classes are simply time where the students try not to fall asleep, try to breathe through the incense, and make up random answers to keep her happy.

Firenze is really interesting. As a centaur, he actually knows what he's talking about. He gives the students more interactive learning. While some of the more, ahem, stuck up students frown on him being a "creature," he actually does know how to teach the class.

ashlee/hufflepuff

[scarletladyy.livejournal.com]

I prefer Firenze, because I'd rather him teach me and I think he's a lot more knowledgeable than Trelawney is. I always get the picture she's just making stuff up, to be honest. Plus she'd drive me absolutely mad, I'd end up walking out like Hermione did (particularly since I don't believe)!

There'd be a lot of sarcasm if Snape taught it, I think, which could be quite amusing, but nobody would learn anything xD And I can't think of anyone else who would fit it.

Fairy//Hufflepuff

[mmailliw.livejournal.com]

As good as Sibyll Trelawney is at Divination, I feel that she is really bad at conveying knowledge of the subject to others. Even when her predictions are right, she always chooses the most extreme and hysterical way to convey them to her students. The prime example I use is that during the beginning of the PoA year, she told Harry's class that 'one of their number would leave them forever' near Easter. Even though it actually correctly referred to Hermione dropping the course, she made it seem as if someone was actually going to die. In doing so, she squandered a great opportunity to explain how vague Divination prophecies could be - and how one phrase could mean anything from the mundane to the extreme (and the mundane interpretation would usually be right).

Therefore, I believe that Firenze is a better teacher. In contrast to Professor Trelawney, Firenze is well aware of the limitations of his subject and is always quick to explain them. For example, in the first class he teaches, he explains "That, is human nonsense. Trivial hurts, tiny human accidents, these are of no more significance than the scurryings of ants to the wide universe, and are unaffected by planetary movements." ; in other words, dismissing all of the sensationalist predictions of Trelawney that never came true in the way students would have imagined.

William//Slytherin

[peyton07.livejournal.com]

Sibyll Trelawney is cray cray. She's a one trick pony and really shouldn't be teaching impressionable children. I mean, think of all the times she traumatized Harry by telling him of his grim fate. That's emotional abuse! Just because they made a joke out of it and she lost all credibility with most of her students doesn't mean that those predictions aren't harmful to his already fragile psyche. Furthermore, her real experience with Divination is when she is in a trance state that she then does not recall nor knows the inner workings of. That doesn't mean she's fit to teach Divination. She teaches them how frauds perpetrate 'divining' the future with ambiance and tricks, but it doesn't seem like a valid class to me when she's teaching it. Firenze is better.

Peyton/Ravenclaw

[rhye.livejournal.com]

Not only does Trelawney do that to Harry, she also insults Hermione and turns Hermione off from the subject completely. She really has no tact or sense of real compassion for her students, I feel.

Jess//gryffindor

[seserakh.livejournal.com]

While Firenze probably knows many more hard facts about Divination, the way he lectures is dreadfully boring. I'd much rather learn about the myriad forms of Divination from someone with enthusiasm about the subject, even if she isn't a reliable seer 100% of the time (though the scene with the tarot cards in the 6th Harry Potter book suggests that while she is actually very good at telling accurate fortunes, she is more likely to ignore the accurate fortune due to her habit of self-delusion). Additionally, Firenze only follows ONE form of Divination, stargazing. Trelawney has demonstrated knowledge of several, from tea leaves to tarot to crystal balls. And let's not forget her fun, traditional take on astrology. I could see myself having a really wonderful time and learning a great deal from Batty old Trelawney (sherry and all).

ses//slytherin

[stellar-kar.livejournal.com]

I think Trelawney as a teacher would frustrate me because she seems so scatter brained and I really do not like that in a professor. While Firenze is more serious he also has a completely different view point than that of a human that I think could be really interesting to learn from. Also I would like to think that Firenze would take us outside to learn not just stay stuck in a classroom all day and I'm sure he knows a lot of other things concerning magical creatures that just wouldn't be taught in Trelawney's class.


Keisha//Hufflepuff

[iamthesea.livejournal.com]

Totally Trelawney because I really enjoy her eccentric personality and her ways of thinking. I know a lot of people find her annoying or see her as someone to be mocked but I have always really liked the character.
She doesn't need anyone else's approval or validation, she maintains what she believes in whether others think it's foolish or not. And I also agree with what mrschucknoblet said above, about Trelawney enjoying what she does, which is a big part of being a teacher.
I also agree that while Firenze knows an awful lot, he would bore me droning on, whereas Trelawney's lessons had character and I would enjoy them.

As for other professors teaching it, the first person I thought of was actually Albus Dumbledore to be honest. I don't know why exactly but I think it would suit him very well.

I'm not sure about Snape. I can't see him enjoying/wanting to teach Divination but I think if he had to, he would just get on with it. Whilst being snarky of course :P

Sea//Slytherin.

[vitallani.livejournal.com]

I would choose Firenze for several reasons.

One is comfort - I mean, come on, who is going to learn/want to learn in a boiling hot room where they fire is always on? There's also the way Trelwany addresses students. She would make me feel very uncomfortable.

Then there is the fact that Trewany is a fake. She does make a few proper predictions with the prophecies, but none of them are intentional, nor does she remember anything about them. What she teaches the students is complete nonsense.

While, admittedly, you won't learn much from Firenze either, at least he doesn't pretend or put on a performance. It is also kind of neat to sit in a classroom that looks like a forest.

Bryony/Slytherin

[17tvfreek.livejournal.com]

I'm going to say Firenze because he seems to get students slightly more passionate about the subject. Unfortunately not many people (besides maybe Parvati and Lavender) took her seriously enough to learn anything from her. I suspect Dumbledore liked to keep it that way too because the knowledge she potentially had could be quite dangerous in the wrong hands.

Firenze had genuine passion for his subject and risked his life to teach it to the humans (i.e. his herd violently turned against him) with the added bonus of respect from his students.

I doubt Snape would have any respect for divination, he'd probably take a Hermione type stance against it.

Emma//Hufflepuff

[rhye.livejournal.com]

Even Snape and Hermione have to admit, though, that there are such things as real prophecies. They can't snub the subject completely without snubbing a very valid branch of magic. I think Hermione was reacting less to the subject itself and more to Trelawney's treatment of her. Plus, Hermione had difficulty with the idea that there was a subject in which she could not excel.

Jess//gryffindor

[17tvfreek.livejournal.com]

yeah I agree of course otherwise Snape wouldn't have bothered telling Voldie about the prophecy and of course there's an element of academic jealousy in Hermione's opinion. However I just think they're the sort of characters who would consider it a more "woolly discipline" - i.e. very hit and miss. They need something more tangible in their study of magic, more cause and effect where as I think Divination requires more faith?

Emma//Hufflepuff

[flipflop-diva.livejournal.com]

If we're speaking in terms of whose class I'd want to take, I'd say Firenze. I think Trelawny is a great character, but I can't see myself learning much of anything in her class. I'd be more like Harry, giggling in the background and hoping she doesn't make some weird prophecy about me. Her class would probably be fun in a 'look at this crazy stuff' kind of way, but I doubt I would learn anything that would actually be of help to the future — and I don't really like classes where you get nothing out of them.

Firenze is definitely more serious, but I get the feeling he actually knows what he's talking about, and even if I still can't actually divine anything by the end of the term, at least I think I would understand the subject better!


Kristine//Hufflepuff

[rhye.livejournal.com]

Between the two, I would rather take Divinations from Firenze. For starters, his Divinations contained some measure of actual study-- astronomy. I could use his class to enhance my knowledge of astronomy. Secondly, he was a pragmatist about how rare and unlikely true seers were, and knew that he was teaching students who were not all seers. Thirdly, he did not predict doom and gloom for all of his students.

Jess//Gryffindor