HiH Clubs

(ack! I wrote a huge comment there but LJ just ate it! ...I hope I can remember what I said!)

I toally agree with you! That's exactly what I thought when I first read it. The dehumanisation and friends and children turning against people reminded me of many dystopian novels, such as 1984, Brave New World and Handmaid's Tale. However, in those novels, people were living with a constant, daily fear, not one that comes just once a year.

This raises the interesting point of how the way you are raised might shape you. In the story a sixteen year old boy (I think...?) picks for the first time, yet even this fairly young person, did not say no. I feel that the stroy is written so that the families seem indistinguishable from each other and blend together, so that in the end not even a sixteen year old boy stands out from the crowd.

Pixie // Hufflepuff

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I think you bring up a GREAT fact of bring up Brave New World and it does remind me of it slightly in that they desensitize the members of the village by doing this yearly and almost like a game.

No, the one who picked wasn't 16. In my discussion in my class about this we think that you have to be 18 or older to be able to pick as head of the family. The mother of the sixteen year old picks for that family. The reason why he pulled was because his father was the one sacreficed the year before and it was deemed an honor to be able to be the head of your family fr the lottery. Which is why he did it without hesitation. They figure that they're doing it for the good of the village and should be willing to reccomend themselves. If you notice what they say when he says that he's picking for himself and his mother, "Good fellow, Jack!" "Glad to see your mother's got a man to do it." And then once he picks, that he shouldn't be nervous, it reinforces the fact that this is an honor.

Jen//Hufflepuff

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I made a comment to the next thread down that I think the story focuses a lot on the "sheep mentality" and without that dehumanization that you're talking about, I don't think any attempt at that would have been successful. Dehumanization is definitely a big part of the story.

I think by the time the story is set, the town has reached a point where they don't see each other as humans anymore - at least not in the way we define human. The only way I can see people doing that to each other is if the dehumanization is constant throughout the year. Everyone around you is your potential murder victim and your potential murderer. How could you ever learn to trust someone fully and have them as your equal in that enviroment? The results of it can't just come out one day a year. There must be consequences of it in every day life, and we just don't see them within the story.

That is definitely no normal town the rest of the year.

- Becker, Slytherin

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acidroses.livejournal.com

Yeah, I think of the great examples of that is the little boy at the end helping in the murder of his own mother. I mean, it's his mom! However young he is, you would still think he'd understand that. That scene is just so disturbing. At this point, I don't think he see her as a human anymore, much his mother.

Tina // Ravenclaw

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I think those kids are a product of their raising. They're raised by parents who kill people. Their older siblings kill people. They learn by watching these people that they are one day going to kill people.

I've always imagined the kids waiting for the day like they would a special day with Grandma helping cook a special meal, or a day with Grandad doing "repairs". It's a symbol to them that, even as kids, they're getting to participate in their future adult world. Sometimes, killing Mom is just part of that adult world. So, in the moment,the excitment of participation overwhelms the idea that he is killing his mother, you know? He probably doesn't understand what he's doing, not really.

- Becker, Slytherin

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That's true, I suppose it wouldn't seem wrong or abnormal to him if that's the world he's gown up in. He probably expected it of himself and maybe even looked forward to the day he coudl take part. How worrying.

What that part really did remind me of was young men in tribes having to pass rituals to become a man of the tribe. Unfortunately, in this tribe/town, this is done by stoning someone to death.

Pixie // Hufflepuff

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I think it's a GREAT way to explain that day, as something that look foreward to yearly. The time that they take to pick the rocks they're going to use and putting them in to piles just waiting. They protect their little stack of rocks because it's like a birthday to them, they get to grow up a little. And it's also a great way to explain desensitizing that they see all the other people do it yearly and it's something that they look foreward to participating in one day, to be able to pull for their family if they make it to being old enough to get to.

Jen//Hufflepuff

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I definitely got that impression. It can't just be one day a year that the town loose any sense of self or identity. I felt there was no real sense of belonging or caring that must be prevalent throughtout he year. Why else would a mother put her 12 year old daughter in for such an ordeal?

I can imagine the townsfolk wandering around, being very pleasent to each other, with fake smiles on their faces and making polite, but trivial conversation, never really trusting each other. At the lottery itself all conversation seemed to be quite trivial. No one wants to let their guard down and I feel that the town woudl have a similar atmosphere any day of the year.

Pixie // Hufflepuff

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That gets me thinking. Do you think Jackson was criticising our own society's tendancies to be two-faced in her story? I think she might have been at least thinking about it. There's an awful lot of saying one thing and meaning another in our relations with others, and most people keep themselves rather closed off as a necessity.

The distance we keep from others, even friends and family, could be looked at as dehumanizing. At the least, it probably isn't something Jackson thought was an ideal way to live life (or so I felt from what I read in the story).

- Becker, Slytherin.

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That's true I suppose, because no matter how you're brought up, if you had any kind of love for your mother, you wouldn't stone her to death. And if you had any love for your children you wouldn't eneter them in the lottery... Is their happy family 'love' just a two faced lie then? I reckon so.

Also, all the crowd were saying out loud how they hoped it wasn't that 12(?) year old girl. Whereas I bet they were actually thinking that if it was anyoe other than them then they'd be happy, including the girl. I strongly suspect that they'd stil not have hesitated to stone the young girl if she was picked anyway.

Pixie // Hufflepuff

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See, that's tricky. It's hard to say they didn't have any love. "Love" is a damn hard word to define, and I don't think it's fair to say, point blank, that the entire society lacks love for parents. Maybe there isn't love there, but I've always been uncomfortable with the idea that we can decide completely that there isn't.

Maybe as far as the child (and his society) is concerned, he does love his mother. Maybe they just have really different definitions than we do. Even if the love is different, can we say it doesn't exist, when it might? (Or does that even matter to the discussion? I don't know. I just wanted to bring it up. I know I mentioned it briefly in an earlier comment.)

- Becker, Slytherin

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See, I don't know if I completely agree. With the way that they talk to each other they seem pretty friendly. Though I suspect that they would be a little more reserved around people, but they know that it's a nessesary evil that has to happen every year. They even marry amongst their own town so there has to be some level of trust amongst the villagers. But I do agree that they are very much sheep like. Once that first stone is thrown then the whole group moves in and attacks. One person has no chance of surviving.

Jen//Hufflepuff

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