Smarmy Society: Term XXV, Activity 3: Character Replacements

[anbyrobanby.livejournal.com]

Activity name: Character Replacements
Points: 24hr debate: Participation 10pts, Additional comment: 5pts. 30pts limit.
End date: Monday 1st April @ 14:00 UTC
Details: Over the course of the films, some of the characters were written out, assimilated into others, or played by multiple actors. Do you feel this is the right approach? Does the change of face affect how you feel about that character? A 24 hour debate to end the month.



So I was considering my next activity for the Smarmy Society, when I read on the news that the actor Richard Griffiths, who played Vernon Dursley, passed away on Good Friday following surgery complications.

I was reading some of the assosciated articles related to this, and one thing that came up was how he was perceived as "perfect" for the role of Uncle Vernon. This got me thinking- without doubt he was excellent in the role, but had someone else played the part, would it have still been as good? The thought reminded me of when Richard Harris was replaced by Michael Gambon and the ensuing dissonance.

I would like to invite a quick discussion about the synergy between actor and character. If an actor or actress becomes unavailable, walks away from the project, etc, how would you think this impacts on the character role? Would it change? Does a strong actor or actress fit into the role smoothly, and would a transition be smooth? More importantly to the Smarmy Club, would your view change if it were a major role versus a minor one?

I'll give 10 points for a substantial, thought-out comment (let's say about 200 words, minimum). Further comments of at least 50 words will be awarded five house points.

As it's a topic with broad scope I shall not be assigning debate motions here. I would just like to see some free chatter. But of course, feel free to play devil's advocate with each other. I love to see a bit of that over a circle of people nodding among themselves. ;)


_{The Smarmy Society: Because loving the Trio is too mainstream.}

Comments

[nearlyconscious.livejournal.com]

I have a lot of strong feelings about this. I remember that I was very unimpressed by the movie when I first saw it because I had already imagined the whole universe and I knew the book by heart and I could see flaws everywhere...! I got this impression watching every movie of the saga, but now I've come to appreciate them, and some more than others, because some things are really brilliant (the music, the special effects, some actors/actresses, etc). I'm still put out by some incoherencies, though... And the replacements go in that category. Obviously, there had to be a replacement for Dumbledore - the role is essential and they needed another actor. However nobody will convince me that Michael Gambon was a good choice. I liked Richard Harris, although I thought he wasn't malicious enough (Dumbledore is supposed to come off as calm yet powerful, and Richard Harris was maybe just a bit too grandfatherly in my opinion), but Gambon is completely off! Well it could be due to scenaristic choices, too, but some moments were just out of character for Dumbledore, and overall I never really recognised the character I knew as Dumbledore on screen, which is too bad.

Another replacement I can think of that I think was not quite a bad choice was the actress who played Pansy Parkinson. I think Scarlett Byrne was terrific - physically, she really corresponded to the description of Pansy, and I thought she played the part (although a minor one) really well.

As for Lavender Brown... UGH. Forever UGH. As soon as she got dialogue, they replaced the actress with someone white. Disgusting. I love Jessie Cave, she's a very good actress and she was a good Lavender, but whitewashing is NOT okay. There are few black characters in the saga as it is, no need for them to be turned white.
Angelina Johnson has also been replaced... which I can't help but interpret as a "black people are interchangeable" shitty move, but mmmh, maybe I'm being paranoid, let's hope so...

Side-note, the part of Bellatrix was originally offered to McCrory, who plays Narcissa. I think it's very interesting. I love Helena Bonham Carter as Bellatrix - I had a very precise idea of Bellatrix in my mind when reading the book (I think she was one of my faves instantly) and HBC is different, but she managed to make me LOVE that different Bellatrix, with curly wild hair and rotten teeth. In the book, Bellatrix and Narcissa are described to look alike despite being dark and fair respectively, which I don't really see in HBC and McCrory. I think my original idea of Bellatrix might have corresponded more to McCrory. I think the casting is perfect as it is, though, because if McCrory could have played Bella, I don't think HBC could have played Narcissa (do you?), and not having HBC in the movie would have been a loss - she's quite a gem to the saga, I think.

Some characters are, for me, impossible to picture without thinking of the actor/actress, because they are exactly what I had envisioned when reading the books. The most striking example is Maggie Smith as Minerva McGonagall!

Delphine/Claw

[caitieness.livejournal.com]

I feel like I'm one of the few people who really liked Michael Gambon as Dumbledore. I don't know if it's because I saw the first two movies before I read the books so the third movie was the first one I was invested in, but I thought he had a great like mysterious but kindly quality, which I saw in the book version of the characters. I mean he really sold me in the movies in the scene where he's eating jelly beans -- "alas, earwax" -- and it was dead on how i read the scene in the book.

I think it's really interesting that you see Maggie Smith as a perfect McGonagall. I love love love her as McGonagall, too because she's an amazing actress but in the book, the character was much younger (Tom Riddle's age!) and casting Maggie Smith makes her seem kind of ancient like Dumbledore. Now, it's hard for me to imagine anyone else in the role and if she had been recast (especially in the last few movies when she was ill), it would have definitely been jarring and disappointing.

caitie / hufflepuff

[nearlyconscious.livejournal.com]

Oh! I hadn't realised Minerva was so young compared to Dumbledore... Snape was casted much older, too. Alan Rickman does not look like he's Lily's age. Although that is another casting choice I will never contest. I love Rickman as Snape, he's terrific.

Delphine/Claw

[caitieness.livejournal.com]

i agreeee. alan rickman was pretty perfect in all aspects. also, i remember some people being like really mad because james and lily were supposed to be 21 when they died (?) and their actors were in their 30s or something. i guess i don't think it's that big a deal!

caitiepuff

[nearlyconscious.livejournal.com]

Well personally I thought that sucked, although I didn't realise it until a bit late... But yeah, it's a detail all in all, not the worst that they messed up.

Delphine/Claw

[bergeronprocess.livejournal.com]

I wasn't super impressed by the first two movies either and, in my view, here is why: they were TOO faithful to the books, they had a pacing problem, it just wasn't exciting or magical. I really started to dig the movies when Alfonso Cuaron directed PoA. (Views of further movies: GoF was too long and dragged in places; OotP was too short and that's a shame; HBP was sluggish; DH was excellent.) That may be in part due to differing directorial, production and writing choices between films and I know my adoration of PoA is not often popular.

That may also explain why, at times, Dumbledore looked out of character. Differences in the people putting pen to paper (or finger to laptop key) to write out how he should act and what he should say = things like the way he interrogated Harry about putting his name in the Goblet of Fire.

We've covered above how we are in cahoots about the sham of a double recasting of Lavender, so I won't be redundant here. But I didn't know--or notice??--that Pansy had also gone through a hat trick of recasts. I really wonder why all these minor characters got recasted so much! YES, I KNOW RECASTED ISN'T A WORD, FIREFOX. STAY WITH ME HERE.

Emmapuff

[flipflop-diva.livejournal.com]

I think PoA is my favorite of the HP films (except for DH). I love PoA so much and watched it so many times, I forgot how different it is from the book until I re-read the book and I was all 'Hey, that didn't happen in the movie! ... Ohhhhhhh.' lol

HP movies are a little weird in the fact that they all have different directors and thus different writing styles. I love them because I love the books, but I've always wondered what it would be like to watch the movies without having any prior knowledge. And then with all the minor characters changing all the time (I totally did not know Pansy had been recast either!), I'm sure that totally doesn't help matters any.

I really wonder why all these minor characters got recasted so much!
I suppose it could be that schedules just didn't allow for the same people to be in all the movies (I think they did contracts pretty spread out and not all at once?). That, or the people casting for one film did not have long-term vision for the other films, but it is really weird! It doesn't really bother me that much — since half of them I didn't even notice — but now that I know, it's weird!

Kristine | Puff

[bergeronprocess.livejournal.com]

YAY ANOTHER PERSON WHO LIKES POA. LET ME LOVE YOU. I also like the new school uniforms it introduced...I digress.

Haha, sorry I made you notice the weird stuff...it's like how now I always notice the arrow in the FedEx logo and little things like that!

Emmapuff

[kaitydid33087.livejournal.com]

See, that's why I like the first two movies, because they're so faithful to the books. That's the one thing that bothers me most about PoA and HBP, they just strayed too far from the heart of the book. For me, when they stray too far, it's when they lose the magic. I think Michael Gambon was just way too angry in PoA. That's what bothered me the most, and Dumbledore just isn't angry.

KaityPuff

[bergeronprocess.livejournal.com]

I think the epitome of "whoa...Dumbledore was much more chill in this scene what the heck" was the whole DID YOU PUT YOUR NAME IN THE GOBLET OF FIRE thing from GoF (uh obviously haha). That was just totally out of left field!

Emmapuff

[anbyrobanby.livejournal.com]

Interesting you should name Bellatrix/Narcissa. Before the films became really established, I had a headcanon casting of who should play Bella (it was a minor-as-hell TV actress who had AMAZING psycho eyes). In appearance, said actress more closely resembles Narcissa than Bellatrix- so to me, for ages Narcissa looked more like Bella than what Bella did!

It's an interesting thing, too- HBC did ultimately own Bellatrix, but I did feel there were times where things were altered round to give her more screentime despite it not having narrative merit (I'm thinking about you, random HBP Burrow attack scene!) I'm fairly sure there were cases of this happening to others, too. I seem to recall how Hermione got a lot of Ron's wiser/more depthful lines, while he remained a goofballsidekick for longer.

rob/gryff

[nearlyconscious.livejournal.com]

Oh that is very relevant. As much as I love HBC-Bellatrix, that Burrow scene came out of nowhere?! And this movie was so badly rhythmed, with tons of things missing I mean really, they had to suppress the Pensieve scene with Merope and put that and awkward Hinny moments instead? Bleh. (I don't dislike Hinny, but on screen it was so uninteresting =/)
And ARGH I hate what they did with Ron. They made him positively annoying whereas in the books, it was much more easy to relate to him, he was more nuanced!

Delphine/Claw

[bergeronprocess.livejournal.com]

Yo, what was up with that Burrow attack scene? That might've been the most egregious example of deviation from the books for literally no good reason at all. Excellent theory that it was really just to let Bonham-Carter showcase her acting chops, but she rocked all the accurate, relevant scenes anyway so it was thoroughly unneeded. Can you tell I have a lot of feels about that scene?

Also, they neutered a lot of Harry's sarcasm/dry wit throughout the course of the series, too!

Emmapuff

[kaitydid33087.livejournal.com]

OMG THANK YOU! I hated that random Burrow scene that wasn't supposed to be there. Probably one of the main reasons why I don't like HBP all that much. But I adore HBC as Bellatrix. She just nailed that roll, and she actually made me love Bella more than I did.

KaityPuff

[interchanges.livejournal.com]

Ah thanks for bringing this up. I do think they changed the character of Bellatrix a little in the movies to more suit HBC. And while HBC is an awesome actress and played Bellatrix well, it is a bit strange that they made her character more than what she was in the books and also added scenes (that Burrow scene pisses me off) so that she could play the character.

Chelsea/Ravenclaw

[flyingharmony.livejournal.com]

I HAD NO IDEA THE GIRL WHO INITIALLY PLAYED LAVENDER AND WAS THEN REPLACED WAS BLACK. (Not that I actually had an idea that Lavender was actually recast...) That... Okay, whoa, no. That just... No. (Totally not a relevant comment for points, but I NEEDED TO GET THAT OUT. Also, I love your thoughts about Bella/Cissy <3)

[interchanges.livejournal.com]

I honestly can't imagine anyone but Dame Maggie Smith playing McGonagall. She was just so perfect for the role. Thanks to the movies, there are now some people I see in my head when I reread the books as those actors- like Luna, McGonagall, Uncle Vernon, Hagrid (though he should have been a bit bigger!), and others. It's interesting how the movies can change your headcanon- I have no idea how I pictured those characters before the movies!

Chelsea/Ravenclaw

[nearlyconscious.livejournal.com]

OOOH YES. I agree with that list. I was astonished that Luna looked so much like what I had imagined her to be like. Well, maybe I pictured her a bit rounder, but that's all. Evanna Lynch is a really perfect casting choice. Hagrid is great, too, and it so happens I had seen the actor in other movies before PS and I'm pretty sure I had thought of him for that part... He should have been bigger though, yes...
And yes, sometimes I regret I didn't draw or write more about my headcanons before seeing the movies... Oh well.

Delphine/Claw